Monday, November 02, 2009

A Case of Religion Promoting Hatred?

*a discussion on culture, role of religion in morphing the culture, how western societies are 'missing' the positive factor of religion - it took an interesting turn*

He: When you separate religion from your life – you are deprived of many humanly attributes which God has bestowed and which one could realize only after losing them – Ultra social and moral less set ups have got nothing for ailing humanity in the longer run however they can further aggravate their plight.

look deep into the western society, they have abandoned their family values for the sake of MY Life and My World, Yes – apparently this has given them some edge over others but despite their much development and progress now they feel that they had made a real bad bargain and now desperately they are trying to turn the wheel in counter direction. So serious is their problem that when it comes to the presidential elections of USA – then candidate’s family setup and family values are also rated as of great importance. The candidate is supposed to project and talk about high family values.

I : Religion is one of the input of social norms - not the only one. What you state suggests that Americans are relinquishing their secular credentials.. which of course is not the case. Laws, regulations, environment, social framework for example - all of these contribute, alongside religion of course, to mould the norms of society. Let me give you an example. In Afghanistan and North Western Pakistan, burqa is very common - not becasue of religion but due to custom. Had it been religion then every muslim women on earth would have worn burqa.

As a law, you can not spit chewing gum in Singapore - this has resulted in Singapore being the cleanest of territories. We, the Islamic nation, are more akin to a toilet as compared to Singapore.

He : Postman- laws, regulations, social frameworks etc etc. these are not constants rather variables and being inferior in their ‘spirit’ and structure they require constant revamping for their validity and acceptability though for a short period. Where as religion – Islam - is an absolute constant in letter and spirit because of its divine nature and perfection. (since God himself has endorsed its perfection). Now the real problem is that humans have made religion as supplement, because by and large it does not entertain their ID.

Yes ‘burqa’ is a religious phenomenon but then why does not rest of the muslim world observe it? This has some thing to do with, how much one believes in his religion. Is he a muslim because accidentally he was born in a muslim family? Or he believes that bearing a muslim name and practicing few commandments of his choice are enough to entitle him for paradise.

I : It is an absolute constant, in letter and spirit due to its divine nature and perfection, only for you and me. Not for anyone else. What we tend to forget is that we are not MUSLIM only nation, they are other religions involved. For us its only Islam and god-damn the rest. And us muslims are further bifurcated in sunnis,shias, hanfi, deobandi, ahmadi etc etc. Islam is NOT an absolute constant if looked fom this perspective. Its a fine thought but reality bites.

He : I believe that ‘originally’ none of the early religions preached anything against the divine law, where as it were followers who try to deviate from divine law under one pretext or the other, they label such deviations as tradition/ custom etc.. an easy scapegoat. Later over the ages when this cunning art got perfected and was acknowledged globally as axiom it was then that people tried to differentiate between customs and religion

At present we are witnessing the worst phase where in, by and large, religion is fast losing its divine spirit and role. Contrary to that traditions and customs are being widely accepted because of globalization, embracing and practicing them do not require any rationale neither passport nor any one needs to change his clothes.

I: Why is it that you would readily accept the culture of using mobile phones but would shy away from basant? Why is Basant 'hindu' and mobile phone 'secular'?

He : Cell phone is a technology nothing to do with religion.Flying kites is Okay for me, love flying them - but since basant has got strings tied to religious sentiments relating to a specific event therefore flying kites during specific days realting to incident is ignorance and lack of knowledge of religious history of our region.

I: why do you have to attach religion with flying kites? Just as there is no link of mobile phones with religion.

He : i told you that i like flying kites rather love flying kites but if flying kites (in specific style and conditions) is associated with religious sentiments of non muslims then i will not fly kite with specific style and period. I will simply avoid that time duration and later enjoy my hobby - simple as that.

I : Why should you be even concerned with what religious association kite flying holds?

He : Kite flying and yellow color celebrations are linked with blasphemy. I being a poor believer still can not tolerate this.

I : Well then I find putting in religion as a blasphemy... had it not been due to religion, you would not have found any problem with it. certainly would not have found it blasphemous. A classic example of religion promoting hatred, I hasten to add.


a fan said...

I personally look at Europe as a more western society than USA.
Because, as per few blogs, i have understood that there are equal number of evangelical nuts in USA as there are fanatics in India/Pakistan.

Regarding this basant example, it all boils down to tolerance and the level of tolerance is influenced by the society. Maybe, we all have some limit..

And this is one of the reasons why i almost never discuss my perspective of religion with any person nowadays :) Because on discussing, once i lost respect over the person (he was more religious and started promoting wrong info about other religion) and the other time i ended up more stupid(the other person was on the atheist border and started pointing out religious stupidities, which i couldn't disagree)

Anonymous said...

Nature is busy creating absolutely unique individuals, whereas culture has invented a single mould to which all must conform. It is grotesque.

Society, which has created all these sociopaths, has invented morality to protect itself from them. Society has created the 'saints' and 'sinners'. I don't accept them as such.

The Chef said...

Religon is man made.

PostMan said...

@fan. I think discussing religion should be totally banned - people are opinionated alongside being polarized.

@Anonymous and Chef

We all are the produce of this society. We, supposedly 'rational, logical' beings that know and understand the negatives of acts of some people, and they whom we criticize.

Its not what faith you have or idea you adhere to, God exists or not, religion is man made or God-sent, if the other party is considered 'lesser' then there is definitely some problem.

Efforts have to be made to provide the exit lanes for this negativity from society. Otherwise its suffocating obscurantism.

Nasir said...

@fan. I think discussing religion should be totally banned - people are opinionated alongside being polarized.

Was this a joke?

Minerva said...

I : It is an absolute constant, in letter and spirit due to its divine nature and perfection, only for you and me. Not for anyone else.

Your friend didn't really answer this question.


Religion is a shaky concept for me. Discussing it is even weirder because most people don't agree with me so I keep my opinions to myself. Unless I'm provoked.

As far as the western society and its religious devotion is concerned, A Fan is absolutely right, they've got as many right-wing-nuts as we've got radical Islamists, it's a really gross misconception to think all of the US/UK/European society are atheists. God and his commandments are still a very big part of the world and its heritage that it begets from millions of years of man's inevitable quest to find the truth and what's beyond.

Sophi said...

thumbs-up-post :)

snikometer said...

who were you talking to?